If you thought Viagra was the only way to fix bedroom problems, think again. Not everyone gets on with the classic blue pill—side effects, health risks, or just plain not working. The good news? There’s a surprising range of other options out there. Some people swear by a few simple lifestyle changes, while others find relief in newer medications or even at-home gadgets.
This guide breaks down eight of the most common—and some lesser-known—alternatives to Viagra. We’ll look at how each method works, who might benefit, and what you really need to keep in mind before choosing one. Forget the technical jargon. You want answers you can use, not a medical textbook.
Ready to find something that actually fits your life? Let’s get straight to what works (and what to avoid) when Viagra isn’t right for you.
- Lifestyle Modifications
- Prescription Medications Beyond Viagra
- Testosterone Replacement Therapy
- Vacuum Erection Devices
- Penile Injections
- Urethral Suppositories
- Psychological Counseling
- Natural Supplements and Herbal Remedies
- Shockwave Therapy
Lifestyle Modifications
Sometimes fixing erectile dysfunction (ED) isn’t about popping a pill. Fixing daily habits can have a huge impact on sexual health. Plenty of men see real improvement just by making a few changes to their routines. Harvard Health puts it simply:
“For many men, improved lifestyle habits can completely reverse erectile dysfunction or make medications much more effective.”
Here’s what really makes a difference when it comes to viagra alternatives you can start at home:
- Eat better: Focus on fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and healthy fats. The Mediterranean diet is linked to better bedroom performance and heart health—two birds with one stone.
- Move more: Regular exercise doesn’t just help your waistline. It boosts blood flow, helps testosterone levels, and supports confidence. Even brisk walking for 30 minutes a day can help.
- Stop smoking: Smoking is a disaster for blood vessels—including the ones you really care about. Quitting can have a pretty fast effect on ED.
- Cut back on booze: Heavy drinking lowers testosterone and can mess with your nerves. One or two drinks are fine, but more can cause problems in the bedroom.
- Sleep right: Poor sleep habits lower testosterone and hurt sexual function. Stick to a schedule and skip the late-night screens.
- Stress less: Mental stress has a sneaky way of messing with libido and performance. Try relaxation methods like deep breathing, meditation, or even just regular downtime.
Want numbers? A 2019 study in the Journal of Sexual Medicine found that men who started exercising three times a week saw a 50% drop in ED symptoms after six months — no prescription needed. These lifestyle changes also lower the risk of heart disease and diabetes, which are common causes of ED anyway.
Pros
- No serious side effects or drug interactions
- Improves overall health, not just sexual function
- Can address root causes of ED, not just the symptoms
- Often boosts energy and mood
Cons
- Improvements are gradual, not overnight
- Can be tough to stick with, habits take time to change
- Might not be enough for severe or medical-related ED without other help
Lifestyle Factor | Impact on ED |
---|---|
Diet improvements | Up to 40% reduction in ED risk |
Regular exercise | 50% fewer symptoms (for mild-moderate ED) |
Quitting smoking | Noticeable improvement within months |
Bottom line: If you’re hunting for viagra alternatives, don’t skip the basics. Small tweaks really can add up, especially if you stick with them. And when you feel better overall, that confidence finds its way into the bedroom too.
Prescription Medications Beyond Viagra
Viagra might be the most famous pill in the erectile dysfunction world, but it's definitely not the only one. Other prescription meds have become solid options, especially if you can’t take Viagra or it just doesn’t work for you. The main ones in this group? Cialis (tadalafil), Levitra (vardenafil), and Stendra (avanafil). Each works a little differently, so there’s some room to try out what fits you best.
Here's what you should know about these viagra alternatives:
- Cialis: Known as the "weekend pill" because its effects can last up to 36 hours. You don’t have to time sex so carefully, which is a big bonus for some couples.
- Levitra: Works a lot like Viagra, but some men find fewer side effects. It tends to last a bit longer, too (about 4–6 hours).
- Stendra: The newest in the bunch, Stendra kicks in fast—sometimes in just 15 minutes. Handy if you want something quick and spontaneous.
All of these fall under a group called PDE5 inhibitors, just like Viagra. They work by helping increase blood flow down there when you’re turned on, not randomly. But you still need sexual stimulation for them to work.
Drug | Onset | Duration | Notable Features |
---|---|---|---|
Viagra | 30-60 min | 4-6 hours | Most researched |
Cialis | 30-45 min | Up to 36 hours | Flexible timing |
Levitra | 25-60 min | 4-6 hours | May work even if you’ve eaten |
Stendra | 15-30 min | 6 hours | Quickest onset |
You might need to experiment with dosing and timing, usually with your doctor’s help. Don’t double up or mix these drugs—they aren’t meant to be taken together. And, these pills aren’t for everyone. If you take nitrates for chest pain or have certain heart or blood pressure issues, steer clear—the combo can be life-threatening.
Pros
- Lots of options for different needs or preferences
- Can be effective even if Viagra hasn’t worked
- Most are easy to use and easy to access through a prescription
- Stendra and Cialis offer flexibility with timing
Cons
- Still require a prescription and a doctor’s OK
- Possible side effects: headache, flushing, nasal stuffiness, or upset stomach
- Can’t mix with some medications (especially nitrates) and not safe for everyone
- Not a cure—only treats the symptom, not the root cause
If you’re curious about other ED treatment options beyond Viagra, ask your healthcare provider about these meds. Chances are, there’s something that’ll match up better with your schedule or health needs.
Testosterone Replacement Therapy
Low testosterone is a real problem for many men, especially as they get older. If you’re tired, losing muscle, or just aren’t into sex the way you used to be, your testosterone levels might be part of the reason. In some cases, simply boosting natural hormone levels can help improve erectile dysfunction—sometimes as much as taking viagra alternatives or pills.
Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) comes in a few forms: injections, patches, gels, or even pellets under the skin. Your doctor will figure out the right form and dose by checking your bloodwork and talking through your symptoms.
“In men with clinically low testosterone and sexual symptoms, testosterone therapy improves libido, erectile function, and sexual satisfaction.” — The Endocrine Society Clinical Guidelines
Here’s a quick look at the different TRT options:
- Injections: Given every week or two at the doctor’s office, pretty affordable and reliable.
- Gels/Creams: Rubbed onto your skin every day. Just be careful—others in your house shouldn’t touch it.
- Patches: Stick on your skin like a nicotine patch, usually changed daily.
- Pellets: Implanted under the skin every couple of months—set it and forget it.
TRT isn’t for everyone, though. It’s only for guys who truly have low testosterone, not just mild symptoms. You’ll want a doctor’s help to decide—don’t self-diagnose or buy weird stuff online.
Quick snapshot on what low testosterone looks like in men over 40:
Age Range | Estimated % with Low T |
---|---|
40-49 | 12% |
50-59 | 19% |
60-69 | 28% |
70-79 | 49% |
TRT can boost your mood, energy, and muscle, and yes, help with ED. But it won’t work overnight. Think of it as a long-term fix if you’re low on T, and not a quick fix like Viagra. As always, ask for blood tests before starting, since there can be side effects like acne, bigger prostate, or changes in blood count.
Pros
- Treats the root cause if the real problem is low testosterone
- Can improve sex drive, mood, and energy
- Multiple ways to take it (injections, gels, etc.)
- Might benefit muscle mass and overall health
Cons
- Needs regular doctor visits and monitoring
- May cause side effects like acne or swollen prostate
- Not safe for everyone (like guys with certain cancers)
- Can take weeks to months for full effect
- Won’t always help if hormones aren’t actually the main problem
Vacuum Erection Devices
Vacuum erection devices—or penis pumps, as most people call them—are a solid option for men who either can’t use pills or just prefer not to mess with meds for erectile dysfunction. These gadgets have been around for decades and are actually recommended by a lot of doctors, not just as a last resort. In fact, they’re FDA-approved specifically for treating ED.
The basic idea: you place a plastic tube over the penis, pump out the air to create a vacuum, and blood rushes in to make things firm. Once you’re ready, you’ll slide a snug ring from the base of the tube onto the base of your penis to keep the blood in place. That ring needs to come off within 30 minutes, but for most guys, that’s plenty of time.
Vacuum devices are simple to use with a bit of practice. You don’t need a prescription for basic models, though some heavy-duty or insurance-covered versions might need a doctor’s OK. According to research, about 7 out of 10 men get good, usable erections from these gadgets—often even men with diabetes or after prostate surgery.
Here’s how a typical use looks:
- Put the plastic cylinder over your penis.
- Use the attached pump (manual or battery powered) to draw the air out.
- Wait for blood to fill the penis—this takes less than a couple of minutes.
- Slip the tension ring onto the base before removing the tube.
- After sex, take the ring off within 30 minutes to avoid any issues.
Compared to other viagra alternatives, pumps have a different vibe: you’re in control, there’s no need to time pills, and you skip drug interactions completely. For guys who’ve had surgery or take a lot of meds, this alone is a big benefit.
Pros
- No medication needed, so no risk of side effects that come with pills
- Works for a wide range of medical conditions—including diabetes and after some cancer treatments
- Can be used along with other treatments
- Reusable—many last for years with proper care
- No prescription needed for most models
Cons
- Some people find the process awkward or a bit unromantic
- Possible minor side effects: bruising, numbness, or a cold sensation
- Must remove the constriction ring within 30 minutes
- May not work well for certain severe circulation issues
- Getting the knack takes a little practice
Success Rate | Works With | Drug-Free | User Control |
---|---|---|---|
~70% | Diabetes, Surgery Patients | Yes | High |
If you’re after a safe, straight-up solution that skips the pharmacy, vacuum erection devices could be the right ED treatment for you. They’re especially handy when you want quick, on-demand results without worrying about what you ate or drank.

Penile Injections
Penile injections are way more common than you’d think, especially among guys for whom viagra alternatives like pills just don’t cut it. The medicine in these shots—often alprostadil, sometimes mixed with papaverine or phentolamine—goes straight into the side of the penis. You give yourself the shot with a tiny needle (really, it's smaller than most you’ve seen at a doctor's office) just before sex. The goal? Triggering blood flow for an erection, usually within 5 to 20 minutes, with effects lasting up to an hour.
These injections aren’t some sketchy, DIY idea. They’ve been around for decades and urologists regularly teach people how to do them safely at home. For a lot of guys, penile injections work when oral meds fail—especially if nerves or blood vessels aren’t responding to pills.
Here’s something you might not expect: In a well-known 2019 clinical survey, around 70% of users said they regularly got reliable erections from injections, even after years of struggling with erectile dysfunction. And for those with health issues that make drugs like Viagra risky (think heart issues), this method can sometimes be safer, since it mostly stays local and doesn’t affect blood pressure system-wide.
Pros
- Delivers reliable results even if Viagra or similar ED meds don’t work.
- No need to plan for pills hours in advance—you can inject right before intimacy.
- Works for a lot of health conditions that make oral meds unsafe (diabetes, heart problems, prostate surgery recovery).
- Usually covered by insurance when other treatments fail.
Cons
- You need to stick a needle in your penis—some guys just can’t get comfortable with that.
- Risk of bruising, pain, or scarring if done wrong or too often.
- Possible side effects: erections that last too long (priapism is no joke), or minor bleeding at the injection site.
- Need some training at first, so you know how to do it right (your doctor usually teaches you).
If you’re looking for a no-nonsense ED treatment and you’re not getting results from pills, injections are worth a serious talk with your doctor. They’re not as scary as they sound once you get the hang of it, but you do need to follow instructions to avoid complications.
Success Rate | Common Side Effects |
---|---|
70% | Pain (15%), Bruising (10%), Priapism (2%) |
Urethral Suppositories
Ever heard of popping a tiny stick into your, well, urethra to help with erectile dysfunction? It sounds wild, but it’s a real option for guys who want something other than pills like Viagra. These are called urethral suppositories, often sold as MUSE (short for "Medicated Urethral System for Erection").
Here’s how it works: You use a little applicator to slide a very small pellet containing the drug alprostadil right into the tip of the penis. The medicine dissolves and gets absorbed quickly through the urethra, causing blood vessels to open up and flow where you want it. If pills don’t work or aren’t safe for you (like if you’re taking certain heart meds), this can be a legit alternative.
The process takes a few minutes. Most men start seeing results anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes after using it. A single dose aims to give you a solid erection for about 30 to 60 minutes—enough to get the job done for most people.
Is it common? Not really. In fact, only about 1-2% of men with diagnosed erectile dysfunction in the U.S. choose this route, according to a review in the Journal of Sexual Medicine. Still, for folks who feel awkward about injections or can’t tolerate pills, it’s worth knowing about.
Pros
- Avoids swallowing pills—great for men who already take lots of medication.
- No need for needles or surgery.
- Can work even when oral meds fail, especially if nerves and blood flow are the problem.
- Lower risk of systemic side effects—acts locally right where you need it.
Cons
- The process can feel awkward and uncomfortable at first.
- Possible side effects: burning, minor pain, or bleeding in the urethra.
- Some men (and partners) report a little soreness during intercourse.
- Not everyone gets a strong enough response every time.
- Not recommended for men with certain urethral or prostate health issues.
Psychological Counseling
Let’s talk about something that most guys skip over: the mental side of erectile dysfunction. Stress, anxiety, depression, and relationship trouble can get in the way more than you might think. In fact, it’s not unusual—research from the Cleveland Clinic found up to 1 in 4 cases of ED have a big psychological component, especially for men under 40. That’s where psychological counseling steps in.
Working with a qualified counselor or sex therapist isn’t just about sharing your feelings. It gives you tools to spot negative thought patterns, manage stress, and improve communication with your partner. Therapy can be one-on-one, with your partner, or a mix of both. The goal is simple: to break the cycle of performance anxiety and help you feel more confident where it counts.
- Common approaches include:
- Cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT): Helps reframe unhelpful thoughts and tackle anxiety head-on.
- Sex therapy: Focuses specifically on sexual issues and skills, sometimes involving your partner.
- Relationship counseling: Handles communication breakdowns and emotional distance, which often show up in the bedroom.
Therapists might also teach relaxation or mindfulness techniques—because let’s be real, worrying about ED only makes it worse.
Pro tip: Don’t wait until things hit rock bottom! Early counseling usually leads to quicker, longer-lasting results than ignoring the problem and hoping for a miracle pill.
Pros
- No medications or physical side effects
- Can help with long-term improvement, not just quick fixes
- Improves self-confidence and relationship satisfaction
- Effective for both situational and ongoing ED caused by stress, anxiety, or emotional issues
Cons
- May take several sessions to see real changes
- Some people feel uncomfortable talking about sexual problems
- Not a solution if the cause is purely physical (like nerve injury or hormonal issues)
ED Cause | Success with Counseling |
---|---|
Psychological (anxiety, stress) | 70% report significant improvement |
Mixed (mental & physical) | 50% see at least some benefit |
Purely physical (nerve damage, etc.) | 10% benefit (usually from improved confidence) |
If your ED seems tied to stress, relationships, or confidence, psychological counseling might just be the viagra alternative you haven’t tried yet. If you’re unsure, a doctor or therapist can help figure out what’s really going on.
Natural Supplements and Herbal Remedies
If you're not a fan of meds, you’ve probably thought about natural viagra alternatives. Stuff like herbal pills and plant extracts get a lot of attention online. Ginseng, L-arginine, maca, and horny goat weed come up again and again. But what actually happens when you use these instead of standard ED treatments?
Let’s break down a few popular choices:
- Ginseng: Sometimes called the "herbal Viagra." Some small studies show it can help with erections, probably by improving blood flow.
- L-arginine: This amino acid helps your body make nitric oxide, which relaxes blood vessels. Some research suggests it makes a real difference for guys with mild ED.
- Maca root: Grown in Peru, maca is known more for boosting libido than treating actual ED. It won’t fix a severe medical issue but may help if your desire just isn’t what it used to be.
- Horny goat weed: People have used this plant for centuries. Some lab studies say it could block an enzyme linked to ED, a bit like Viagra does, but with less power.
Keep in mind, just because it’s natural doesn’t mean it’s always safe or effective. Supplements aren’t tightly regulated. What’s on the label might not match what’s in the bottle, and they can mess with other meds you’re taking. There have even been cases where “natural” ED pills were found to contain hidden prescription drugs.
Here’s a quick look at what researchers have found so far:
Supplement | Evidence for ED | Main Risk |
---|---|---|
Ginseng | Some positive results, usually mild improvement | Can raise blood pressure, interact with meds |
L-arginine | May help, best with mild ED cases | Possible migraines, stomach upset |
Maca root | Libido boost, less effect on erection | Usually safe, but needs more research |
Horny goat weed | Mixed lab results, weak effect in real life | Heart rhythm issues if overused |
Here’s the real deal: these natural remedies aren’t a magic bullet. If you try anything, chat with your doctor first, especially if you’re taking other prescription medications or have health problems. Sometimes natural options can work as a boost or a minor fix, but don’t count on them to solve serious ED. Still, if you’re looking for a gentle starting point, and you want to avoid pharmaceutical side effects, these are the top picks worth considering.

Shockwave Therapy
If you’re tired of taking pills or you’re not a fan of needles, shockwave therapy is probably the most high-tech alternative to Viagra. This treatment, called low-intensity extracorporeal shockwave therapy (Li-ESWT), uses painless sound waves aimed right at the penis. The whole idea? Boost blood flow by encouraging new blood vessels to form naturally—no drugs involved.
The procedure happens right in the doctor’s office and usually takes about 15–20 minutes per session. Most guys do a few sessions over a month. You stay awake, there’s no downtime, and you don’t need anesthesia. Shockwave therapy isn’t just for men with serious health issues—guys with mild or moderate erectile dysfunction (ED) often see results too. Some clinics claim as many as 70% of patients notice significant improvement, especially those who didn’t have success with pills.
Number of Sessions | Average Success Rate | Pain Level | Downtime |
---|---|---|---|
6-12 | ~70% | Minimal/None | None |
Unlike the quick fix you get from Viagra alternatives that are meds or supplements, shockwave therapy tries to solve the underlying problem—the blood flow. But it’s not instant. It can take a few weeks before you start to notice a change, and the results can last from several months to a year.
Pros
- Non-invasive: No surgery, needles, or pills needed
- Treats the cause, not just symptoms
- No major side effects reported
- No downtime—back to your day right after
Cons
- Not covered by most insurance/easily gets pricey
- Results aren’t instant—it takes time to work
- Not every clinic offers it; you’ll need a specialist
- Long-term benefits still being studied
If you’re hunting for Viagra alternatives that don’t involve daily meds, shockwave therapy is about as close to cutting-edge as it gets. Just check if your local urologist offers it and make sure your wallet’s ready—most folks pay out-of-pocket. Still, for some, it’s worth every penny if it means ditching the pills for good.
11 Comments
Jeff Ceo July 18 2025
Honestly, I'm tired of the same old Viagra talk. It's great to see alternatives being discussed here because not everyone's body reacts the same way, and side effects can be brutal. Lifestyle changes like better diet and exercise always get overlooked but can make a huge difference in overall performance without throwing pills down your throat.
That said, I'll admit I was skeptical about some of the natural supplements listed, but it's worth a shot instead of risking health with prescription meds. Anyone else tried any of these alternatives and noticed actual results? I’m particularly curious about the modern therapies and if they’re readily accessible or just expensive gimmicks.
Bottom line: it’s about confidence and feeling good rather than chasing a pharmaceutical quick fix. I appreciate helpful guides like this that break things down simply and honestly.
David Bui July 20 2025
Well, first off, the grammar in this article was decent enough, but they could’ve tightened some sentences. You see, clarity is king in posts like this, especially on such a touchy topic. Anyway, about the alternatives—it's all a mixed bag honestly. Some of those 'natural supplements' are just gimmicks marketed to desperate people.
Don't get me wrong, lifestyle changes are always welcome, but the article lacked depth on the true scientific backing behind these options. Anyone who reads this should still consult an actual doc rather than blindly trying things.
Also, the article oversimplifies pros and cons, which is a bit lazy. I get wanting to be accessible, but it borders on glossing over important disclaimers.
Alex V July 21 2025
Oh, sure, "no fluff," they say. Like that's believable when the corporate pharma giants are probably behind half of these so-called "natural" options too. Don't trust anyone selling you a magic pill or potion. It’s all snake oil dressed up with science-y words to separate you from your cash.
Also, the paranoia in me wonders if those modern therapies are just a way for doctors to milk insurance companies. You want real help? Try addressing the root cause—mindset, stress, and yeah, actual physical health—rather than popping mystery pills.
But hey, kudos for the article not pushing Viagra only. Still, always read the fine print and don’t drink the Kool-Aid just because it's labeled 'natural.'
Robert Jackson July 23 2025
I find it irritating that so many of these articles miss the forest for the trees. The title promises eight options but ends up as a meh list of generic advice. Why anyone needs fancy therapies when simply cutting back on rubbish food and booze would sort most problems out is beyond me. It’s like people want the easy fix instead of real effort.
Grammar-wise, the article was okay, but plenty of minor typos which are distracting. For example, I almost lost track of which option had which pros and cons. Organization matters!
Anyway, if you ask me, the best alternatives are the most straightforward—exercise, quitting smoking, and reducing stress. None of those require a script or spending money on questionable 'alternatives'.
Maricia Harris July 24 2025
Honestly, did anyone else skimmed this expecting some groundbreaking tip and got half-baked advice instead? I mean, natural supplements? Please. Most of those are just repackaged stuff you find at a drugstore with a fancier label. And modern therapies? Sounds expensive and probably not covered by insurance.
Plus, lifestyle tweaks like diet and exercise are great and all, but the post makes them sound like magic bullets for bedroom confidence, which is a bit dramatic. Not to mention a ton of people struggle with psychological blocks and are left out of this conversation.
Honestly, it felt like an article trying too hard to sound expert without enough research. But hey, if it fires up someone to actually take care of themselves, more power to them.
Tara Timlin July 26 2025
This article is a pretty decent primer! It’s awesome to see alternatives getting some spotlight since Viagra isn’t the end-all-be-all, especially with all the side effects some people face.
I've personally recommended natural supplements like L-arginine combined with stress management to friends with good results. However, I always stress the importance of consulting healthcare providers because some supplements can interact with other meds.
Another aspect worth mentioning is the psychological side—therapy can be a game-changer if confidence or anxiety plays a role. So glad this article touched on modern therapies, even if briefly.
Anyone tried any of these therapies or supplements? Would love to hear your experiences or additional tips!
Jean-Sébastien Dufresne July 27 2025
Hey folks! I think this article brings some necessary variety into a topic that’s often only viewed through one lens. All these alternatives — from diet to therapy — deserve honest consideration.
I've seen patients benefit from structured exercise programs combined with mindfulness techniques; these approaches not only improve bedroom confidence but overall life satisfaction too. Natural supplements can help, but they shouldn’t be your first or only line of defense.
Also, modern therapies might seem out of reach but many clinics offer support tailored to different budgets, so don't dismiss that angle. Anyone who’s tried combining these methods, feel free to share your outcomes!
Patrick Nguyen July 29 2025
Straight to the point, good on the author for ditching the Viagra bias. Quite a few of these options are worth a serious look, especially lifestyle changes which seem to get underrated. That said, a stronger emphasis on evidence would’ve elevated this post.
For example, science backs up some natural supplements better than others, but that nuance is missing here. Trying to sell you all eight as equally viable without mentioning dosages or clinical trials is misleading.
Naturally, the best route depends on the individual, but a more structured comparison would help readers decide smarter.
Patrick Bread July 30 2025
Amusing how this topic gets people buzzing. Personally, I found the article straightforward but a bit too polite about some options. Like, if you want to get real, some of the therapies mentioned are expensive, inconvenient, or just plain weird.
Also, it’s kinda funny how the ‘natural’ supplements are often just repackaged stuff that’s been around forever without much change. Not knocking the idea, but people expecting miracles might be disappointed.
Ultimately, the best choice involves a blend of approaches, not a silver bullet. Glad the article encourages folks to explore instead of defaulting to prescription meds, though.
Fiona Doherty August 1 2025
This article sounded promising but kinda felt like a half-hearted effort to cover a complex subject. The natural supplements section especially lacked any meaningful scrutiny, which is problematic since so many rely on those without medical guidance.
And seriously, not everyone can just 'adjust their lifestyle' easily due to work, health issues, or personal situations. It glosses over real barriers people face.
While I appreciate the intent, the execution leaves a lot to be desired. More depth, less fluff, please.
Neil Greer August 2 2025
I think this article opens the door nicely for people curious about alternatives, without overwhelming them with jargon. That’s key because the topic intimidates a lot of folks.
Just to add, I’ve personally benefited from combining moderate exercise, meditation to reduce anxiety, and a few safe natural supplements. It’s definitely a journey, not a quick fix.
It's also a good idea to keep lines open with your doctor, especially if you’re trying multiple things. Body responses vary a lot.
Happy to chat more about what’s worked for me or others if anyone wants to collaborate on this topic!